Well we could have used a heat shield last night at the City Council meeting as the gun debate got going (a little firearm humor, there).

I counted 11 people who got up to the mic to ask the council to cancel the gun show at the City Center Jan. 11 through 13, though I could have missed one or two.

Skidmore Political Science Professor Robert Turner, who is also married to Susan Steer, organizer of the petition to cancel the gun show, questioned holding a gun show where AR-15 rifles and AK-47s in a publicly-owned building.

"I don't see why publicly-funded facilities should be promoting this," he said. 

Phil Diamond, who often speaks about a wide range of issues at the City Council meetings (no meeting is complete without him), called for a protest in front of the City Center during the gun show.

"Let's use our First Amendment rights to battle their Second Amendment rights," he said. "Let's be as noisy as we can be at the show."

Other notable speakers were: Bill McTygue, former Democratic commissioner of public works and Charlie Samuels, the self-proclaimed 50-year-old skateboarder. Other speakers were listed in today's story on the meeting.

Most people who spoke said they did not believe Public Safety Commissioner Christian Mathiesen's resolution went far enough.

Before Finance Commissioner Michele Madigan made her amendment to strengthen the resolution (though it is still non-binding and essentially symbolic), Public Works Commissioner Anthony "Skip" Scirocco said he could find "a couple thousand dollars in my budget" to start a gun buy-back program in the city.

That did not go anywhere, since he was trying to add it to the resolution they were already working on, but it seemed like it would need its own.

The only person to speak in defense of the gun show was John Tighe, who writes the Saratoga In Decline blog (Warning, the content is crude, vulgar and is considered offensive to some most). He said the focus should be on private sales of guns, which do not require a background check, as opposed to the gun show, which is regulated and requires background checks for sales therein.

"I would protest against Craigslist," he said. "I would protest against the want ads. That's where most of these sales are happening."

He was in the minority at the meeting, though.

Carol Maxwell said she is a former gun owner and member of the NRA, but "I no longer have guns in my life."

Anyway, I wanted to offer a little clarity to the debate, because as City Center Authority President Mark Baker pointed out to me after the meeting, "there were a lot of errors in what they were saying."


I'm no gun expert, but I've shot before, I've attended the Saratoga Arms Fair and I know enough to realize that there IS indeed a lot of misinformation out there about what is legal, what isn't and what we're talking about here.

First off, there were a few references to "rapid fire" weapons or "automatic" weapons. Those are machine guns and are not legal without very regimented and specific licensing and they are not sold at gun shows.

Semi-automatic means that if you depress the trigger, only one bullet is shot. If you want to shoot another bullet, you need to pull the trigger again.

"Assault weapons" are illegal in New York State. They were illegal nationally until the ban on them expired nearly a decade ago, but not all AR-15s or AK-47s are legally considered assault weapons.


In order to be considered an assault weapon, those guns would need to also have at least two of the following add-ons: a folding or telescopic stock, a pistol grip (meaning a handle like a pistol, where you grip the gun), a bayonet mount (not that THAT seems to be much of an issue these days), a flash suppressor (which goes on the end of the barrel to reduce the flash exiting the barrel with a bullet) or a grenade launcher.

High-capacity magazines were also banned in the federal law in 1994, but magazines manufactured before the ban have always remained legal.

Here is the penal law section defining "Assault Weapons."

Penal law section 265.00

 22. "Assault weapon" 

(This section is for a rifle that is legally considered an "Assault weapon")  

 (a) a  semiautomatic  rifle  that  has  an ability  to  accept  a  detachable  magazine and has at least two of the
  following characteristics:
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
    (ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action  of
  the weapon;
    (iii) a bayonet mount;
    (iv)  a  flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
  flash suppressor;
    (v) a grenade launcher; 

For the record, that means an AR-15 with none or only one of those additions is not an assault weapon.

Here it is for shotguns, which can be "assault weapons":

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least  two  of  the  following
  characteristics:
    (i) a folding or telescoping stock;
    (ii)  a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
  the weapon;
    (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
    (iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or 

Pistols:

(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a  detachable
  magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
    (i)  an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the
  pistol grip;
    (ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel  extender,  flash
  suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
    (iii)  a  shroud  that  is  attached  to,  or  partially or completely
  encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold  the  firearm
  with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
    (iv)  a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
  unloaded;
    (v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;
  or 

Finally, specific models that are considered "assault weapons":

(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames  or  receivers  of  such
  weapons,  or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known
  as:
    (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all
  models);
    (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
    (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
    (iv) Colt AR-15;
    (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
    (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
    (vii) Steyr AUG;
    (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
    (ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to)  the  Street
  Sweeper and Striker 12;

Here are some exceptions:

(e) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle,
  shotgun  or pistol that (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
  slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or (C) is an
  antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
    (ii)  a  semiautomatic  rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
  that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
    (iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than  five  rounds
  of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
    (iv)  a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
  specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such  weapon  was
  manufactured  on  October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere
  fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to
  mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
    (v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a  semiautomatic
  pistol  or  any  of  the  weapons  defined  in  paragraph  (d)  of  this
  subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September  fourteenth,  nineteen
  hundred ninety-four.

And on another note, here's the blotter for last night.
Jan. 3 blotter

Not much to see here. No arrests made. A few incidents of harassment. One report of subject in store "making strange comments," but that's about it.